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Mark Phillips


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Joined: 1969.12.31 00:00:00
Messages: 2177
Location: Watsonville, CA
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I've been lurking too, so now here's a set of questions which might bring the discussion into focus, at least for me.

Imagine that there are typically at least 20 players on at any given time. Many times there are as many as 100.

The game world is vastly larger. Right now only the City center has been implemented, and not yet all of that. Imagine there are dozens of elaborated neighborhoods with residences, businesses, their own distinct cultures, lots and lots and lots of NPCs, back alleys, factories, greenhouses, sewers, schools, medical clinics, characters which can fly, ghosts and spirits, considerably more elaborated magical practices and other rituals. There are employment and entrepreneurial opportunities. Players are being kidnapped into slavery, and rescued by other players. You can be sentenced to prison, or to be flogged. There are way more, really way more, items and implements. There are forty or fifty fully-developed Roles. There are hundreds and hundreds of Skills. In addition to today's 8500 Rooms there are, say, 125,000 more. There are characters who've reached level 100 and it's not uncommon for average characters to be at level 25.

Is imbalance still an issue for newbies? Or is the imbalance you point to today actually an artifact of TC's highly incomplete game world at this particular moment?

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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Sascha Lecours



Joined: 2003.10.24 00:00:00
Messages: 446
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Well, nicely put. I must say the scope you suggest is humbling. nevertheless, I don't see how this makes it useful to have the equipment requirement in place now or then. My belief of TC was that it would place more emphasis on character development than on stat-management, and sadly the gigantic bonus possible through items puts the focus squarely on acquiring the useful jewelry. It's the most valuable and tedious commodity around. So why can't we have a more straightforward, original system that spares us the hassle and the pitfalls of the items-at-levelups system?
Lisa Chau



Joined: 2003.06.02 00:00:00
Messages: 563
Location: Kalaheo, Kauai, HI
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Newbie characters will have an easier time of it than today. There'll always be someone to help them get started. Information, eq, funds, and so on. This is how it is on larger games I've played before.

That may not satisfy Sascha and Michael, though. They're more interested in building powerful characters than I am. I think that's a fair statement which doesn't put words in their mouths. I think it's also where we disagree. Some players want powerful characters, some players just want to chat, others like me are in between. Will bigger/larger/more satisfy them all? Over to you Sascha and Michael!

Chiensha, Moorea, Vicodin, Xanax, Zoloft.
Sascha Lecours



Joined: 2003.10.24 00:00:00
Messages: 446
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Yeah, there will be people around to provide newbies with equipment, but then why even require the equipment? If it's provided to everyone (which I doubt will happen), it becomes inconsequential. If it's provided only to some, then it's causing a major problem.
Also, if it's to be lent or given to the newbies as they arrive, this means that a person who refuses to accept this help or who lacks the patience to get themselves into a full suit (quite an ordeal for newbies) will be set back quite a bit indeed! As I said before, the equipment accounts for 80% of the average character's power at levelups, so it's not exactly optional. Even a character who is just interested in chatting and RPing will want lots of energy and practices, so it's not like it's only desirable to some people to have a competent character.
Why not just get a simpler system? It's not that I am trying to weasel my way into a powerful character - if I was, I'd keep things exactly as they are, where I have a full suit and the new players are clueless; I'd be at least three times as powerful as most others. I love RP'ing my characters and just talking, but sometimes RP'ing means being able to fight and learn a few skills as well. I envisioned TC as a system where the focus is on roleplaying, and the eq = your levelup increase system is definitely not conducive to that. Don't mistake me for a munchkin or power-gamer; if I was, you can bet I wouldn't have posted anything re: the levelup system. There must be a simpler, more elegant system for levelup power than the existing one, is all, and no matter how large and populous the world gets, this will remain an issue.
Catherine Gardiner



Joined: 2004.11.25 00:00:00
Messages: 190
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If I am allowed my two dinar's worth I would just like to say that I am a newcomer to these games, having stumbled upon Triad City and I am loving it. In fact I am hooked. However I do feel that as a new character I have had to cope with a very steep learning curve. All you players have been fantastic and helped where you can, but often at crucial moments there has just been me on, and I have probably made ill-advised decisions through inexperience and the lack of the bricks with which to build my character. I refer specifically to practices and dinars.

I have read this debate with interest, and while I can honestly say I agree with both points of view it has to be noted that I am finding it very hard, if not impossible to progress my character because I never have enough practices to learn anything beyond the vital upgrading of my Learn skill. Up until today I had no idea how to get more practices at leveling, and until a couple of days ago, had no clue as to which bits of eq to wear to maximise which skills. (Thanks to Moorea for the Gems posting on that one).

Whereas my character is now level 11 I have little or no money, so I can't bid for, or buy the items I need. (Again thanks to those who have lent me stuff).I have no practices left so I can't learn anything else until I next level, so I am forced to run C&L endlessly in the hope of getting to the next level faster. Although I have taken on a role I can't use it as I cannot learn the required skills. I'd be useless in the forest, so I daren't go off and fight anything .... you get the picture.

I am not whining (or at least that wan't my intention!), and I am very aware that my character's shortcomings are probably my own fault because I do not play lupin to her best advantage. No doubt I will learn from lupin for my next character. BUT .... I do wonder how many people have a go at this, and give up at this juncture, feeling that perhaps somehow they have missed the point. It is soooo depressing to realise that everyone else has the capabilities to go off and do all the things I'd love to be able to do, and I thought I WOULD be capable of doing, only to be disappointed because I don't have enough practices or money. Just a thought.
Mark Phillips


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Joined: 1969.12.31 00:00:00
Messages: 2177
Location: Watsonville, CA
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Catherine, thanks so much for the invaluable feedback!

I've made some additions to the Player Guide, to try to make some of the must-dos more explicit and accessible. That's a small start but I hope it helps.

Also please see lupin's MUDmail for a private message.

--Mark

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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